Episode · 2 weeks ago

Back to the office for Zoom calls!


Employers struggle with WFH policies, should they or shouldn't they? What about the "blended" approach? Working from home has lead to the US workforce increasing time at work by 10% according to this study:

Technological challenges:

Internet is not meant for business bandwidth but rather entertainment and personal. Time management with family at home. Office supplies and devices (business vs personal) can be mixed leading to employers being unaware of employees' usage. Changes and challenges in HR policy for Asynchronous communication ethics.

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Yeah, I don't know seeing me trying todance around. Like I mean it's ugly, I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend any toput anybody through that on a video or anywhere anyway men. I decided you must post adance video to our instagram. That's what I have decided yeah so for those listening, Jasondoesn't touch the company social media. Sorry, you can provid, you can providethe video to Mariana and we'll take care of getting it out, make sure itlooks right. Okay, all we'll probably talk about that later. I shaking my head. No for the audiolisteners, so anyways today we're talking aboutcareful about burn out when working from home. So there was an interestingstudy that came out and the moment that I shared this on internal channels andcommunications at nort brand camery was like. I want to be on the show. I wantto talk about this because it's something that I think is it'sdefinitely a hot topic, a about going back to the office not going back tothe office. What's the reason that companies want people to go back to theoffice and there's not a one size fits all answer, even though there's certainmedia outlets that are trying to put it out there that it is, but it's not sowe're going to try to dive in today on a little bit. Why there's a reason for that, or at leasta couple days in the office and the rest is at home, and why, especially inthe context for us since we're a brand agency and we are doing creative work,I think it does have some merit to discuss and explain that. But you knowif you're complete like remote, it team and- and you don't do a lot ofbrainstorming. I don't know if that's going to be d d,The reason you know to get back in the office but anyways I'll read this working fromhome has led to the US work force increasing time and work by ten percent.According to a study, we'll have a link to the study and theYoutube Channel and below so that you be able to click on that and read it.If you like it's a very long one, but the basic statement or argument for inPerson Work Environments is the following: Remote Work Obviouslyeliminates in person communication. However, we found that people did notsimply replace in person interactions with video and or voice calls. In fact,we found that shifting to firm, wide remote work calls an overall decreasein observe synchronous communication, such as scheduled meetings and audiovideo calls. By contrast, we found that the remote work caused employees tocommunicate more through media that are more asynchronous, sending more emailsand many more. I, MS media, richness, theory, media synchronous, Ty Theoryand previous empirical studies all suggest that these communication mediachoices make it more difficult for workers to convey and or Converge On,the meaning of Complex Information Drinkley. So the the pieces that Ipulled out about what is syncronized synchronous is what happens when youexchange in real time, so this, I suppose, could be consideredsyncro, even though it's over video, but it's definitely something thathappens in person. So you know it's where the transmitter and receiver arepresent in the same time and space, that's the definition right. A Sin.Crines, obviously, is not that I mean I look at it as like you're insin versus not in sink, not the bad of course, but you know I don't know, I think, there's anargument for both. I think it's super highly dependent on...

...what your business is. What the I meanlike in this I'm curious. I look through the study a little bit. Ididn't read it all, of course, but like what is complex work put as complexinformation, I don't really understand their definition of that, because Ithink they are definitely things that can easily be done remote without anytrouble, without any loss of like whatever productivity or outcome, andthen there's other things that, like definitely are very, very, verydifficult. You know to do if you're not sitting there in person and and sinkessentially yeah. Well, I mean you and Cameria were completely remote. Youconvey creative campaign ideas for marketing initiatives or social mediahow's it going. What's your almaist me, it's an interesting comer. You giveyour opinion to, but I think it's an interesting dynamic. I mean for people who don'tknow camery and I nobody in ner brain you know was never set in person. We'venever met, but we've worked together, for I guess about a year at this point,without a o makes it a year. Is Yeah sounds right. Like you know, I mean wehaven't, lost any clients, so that's where I that's. where I look at it andI'm like well, it's not it's not necessarily a detriment. I always kindof wonder like what's the, if you want call it opportunity, cost like what arewhat are we lacking or what opportunities are we're missing becausewe're not you know more in sinter own or sincereness, like I said, if clients are happy, ifwe're happy, you know if I work life balance is better because of that. Ithink that overall it's a at a net positive, I mean sure you're going tomiss some things. You'RE gonna maybe share fewer ideas. I guess maybe I don't know, but I mean- and I think that's onething the study kind of dove into is like they called them. Ties and they'relike weak dies and strong ties within a company, and you talk to differentpeople for different reasons, and you pick up different types of information.So on it's hard to know, there's like this. You know black hole or gray areawhere you don't actually know how it would be in the alternative universe, and so it's hard to say, but I think itto me. It's working you know what's wild, I actually don'tknow what an office is like in person. Yeah you'll take him to a count, my ageand I just graduated, and then everything went right into ovid. When Igot a J, I actually don't know what it is like not work right. That's a good point, yeah! Soyeah. Thinking about that. I can tell you like the differences, becauseobviously I have different work environments. I work from home with youand I do something else on the side so like with y'all everything's insinctwith no brand right. I feel like it's great communication. I feel like we'regood at collaborating whenever we need to open lines of communication at alltimes. So as long as you have that, like open line communication all thetime- and we like try to listen to understand, we make sure everyone getsthe big picture before we exit calls and all that I feel like everythinglike falls in line like everything. Isn't everyone is insane right, but and there's like clear work flowsthat everyone understands like this is what we do this this this getsdelegated over here and the those are like pretty clearly distinct this, becausethat the words think the span think Wan yeah that, but I have another like workful, whereno one knows anything at any point in time will hop on a call, will talk incircles and we get off. The call is like what was I supposed to do so like, and I feel like we're missingthat in person aspect, so we could really sit down and point to. Thethings were talking about an ax them draw the tiger picture so like andthat's a that's a job where I'm like brain storm and a lot more with stuff.So when it gets to being like super super duper creative with stuff, itworks way much better like to be in person when I have to really likegetting a creative back for like, but if I'm not doing that, I feel likeeverything else is: okay,...

...yes, administrative operational kind ofstuff is yeah. Ask oriented stuff is pretty Fred, you take care of remotely,but when it's like a job where you have to like dream things up- and you haveto go to someone ask their opinion on this- then go to this person and thattar opining on this. It is it's so much easier. If you can just sit in a room,you don't have to schedule, you don't have to schedule things out for next Thursday, because everyone's in adifferent time zone, like it's re, imagine a r gram person and we couldjust walk to the other person's office. I like Jus, get it Ofer with real,quick yeah, something yeah. I there are times where, like you know,for Web stuff, I mean, I know a lot of stuff, but I definitely don't know whatX Y Z entails or how much of a lift that is so it's like there aredefinitely times where I don't want to interrupt people on slack, but I dowant to answer the question you know I need to answer the question for theclients sake to be like. Well, you know it's going to take two weeks. It'sgoing to take two days. You know it's like. Is this possible? Sometimes weget requests of. Can we do this and it's like well I'll, go ask but it'd be nice to be able to you knowand then like being able to bring clients into an office, especially inour industry, and any kind of like. Does it be to be kind of service facedindustry, I think, being able to bring folks into an office your clients andthings like that and treat them, and also you know if they ask a questionabout something being able to pull the person? Who has the answer into thatmeeting? Real, quick just for a real quick aside, you know having all daymeeting and bring storm and get a bunch of stuff accomplished. I mean that's.Therre, definitely benefits to having an office, but to me that that's not to say that youcan't accomplish the same things without preto reason. For some reason,I get the vibe that if we were all in an office there would be like two hoursof talking and then people we or yeaten like he's, not work in an office. Sothat's where I can go it. You know I've been working remotely before nervebrand. For I mean probably four or five years, but I spent the other four orfive years of my career working in office environments- and you know eightthirty to five thirty, and it's like I mean I'm, not a big person to walkaround the office and start conversations with everybody, and youall know me: I'm not going to sit there and walk around and and Chit Chat awhole lot, but it still happened. I mean we still ll just go, hang out andspend three hours not doing any work and I'm yeah t agree. That's good tosome degrees, not people, don't also. People also think that working whenpeople say working has changed like Henry Ford, of course, with the youknow creating the shifts and the eight hour work day. You know that kind of athing: that's where that all come from, but in our world that is not a work dat,you know a work day could be nine hours. It could be three we're not always we're not bound to aspecific amount of time, it's project and due date and budget. Those are thethings that bind us and you know the the out of time that it takes becausefor I give you an example, if I was to code up, you know a navigation on awebsite. I'd have it done in probably about ten fifteen minutes. You know,depending on the size and how many links you know, Laura may take maybehalf an hour or shine may take even less. So how do you say? Well, that'san hour, but it wasn't. You know you know we're trying to fit we're, tryingto hit goals, we're trying to hit targets and certain things like that,not necessarily as mich loves to say, and if he were here, he posite again. Ilove that word pontificate because it fits Mich. But you know you don't payus for this. You pay us for this, pointing to my head and not our hands,and so it's a skill, talent thing. I think you hit it on the head Cameria,it's like there would be. There would be so much unproductivetime in the office, the rather than...

...productive time, and so for that Iwould be like I'm of the opinion like stay home. You know, I don't really want that inthe office. I think, if we're in the office, it's really just to kind of dosome of that brain storming that big blue sky thinking, but if we get anoffice which is possible in our future that it would be to John what John saidabout entertaining prospects or clients, it will also be for the blue skythinking kind of stuff, and then everybody go home have a nice day. Ihave a wonderful time. That's it to see! I'm in my mind, I prefer I likethe F fifty idea, just because there's times why I do want to, I do want tryto figure out how tall I am you know, I'm not I'm not going to tell you Ijust so you know, but I do what you get to think of that and like inside me like, I crave thebrain power, the thinking, but when I'm actually working, I actually do preferto be by myself for a long periods of time. I don't like having to ask peopleto help with help with my stuff, like I like to sit down and be able to knockit out. But as far as like the camaraderie aspect, I actually have agenuine appreciation for being able to do that in person in the workplace andI feel, like other things, get done faster when people are together. So ifyou have like two three days a week dedicated to like hey, come in Tuesday,Wednesday Thursday, like okay, well, yeah well, well, even Laura I mean weknow Laura Laura is about. I want to say Laura's, like five foot. Four, Ididn't know that until I met her at the drive in, I was expecting I to eyebecause I'm five seven so I'm not for vibes yeah yeah. So I was like I had togo like. Oh, I didn't know, that's kind of what thepandemic is done to everybody like we see everybody in this format and forall you know, I could be seven feet tall and I'm not I'm five. Seven, I'mthe same height as coral John's, a little shorter than I am, and you knowMitch is the tallest missis already point it out. I'm the tallest person atthe Nord and I'm like all right. You win five nine go ahead. Is that what itis once you're below a certain foot like you have to apt to be a nerve justin life as a man. Is that hwere going to have a thing outside our office?That has one of those big like characters out, and it says you must bethis tall to ride the ride. And then you have to like that, your if you'retaller, if you're shorter than this, then you can't enter and be an Ertiaborn to be five seven anime, that's where I got to go. I mean you probably get on Alete,there's not a lot of five seven athletes. Now it's like what else yougoing to do besides, learn a bunch of stuff to use a thing. That's true, but yeah you do get an appreciation of,because I mean your relationships that you form atwork. You know when youactually see them in person. I mean the dynamic. We all see it. We're all. Werepeople were Romette to sort of gather in groups anyway, so having acentralized place to do. That is important, but another thing is and Ibring up Laura as an example: Laura's got a family and a husband- and my mom is even complained about thiswhen she's trying to do stuff at home, it just commoner all like hey, hey, hey,because family sometimes doesn't understand you're working like leave mealone. I got to get this because I do I don't get it don't get it it's like. I can doanything during the day and it's like yeah. You know you can take off, I'mlike no. I can't I have people who, like just the same as if I was sittingin a chair in an office, there's still like dependability and not justinternally but externally people. People need me, I know the world.Everyone who works from home can relate with the people coming to bid you ire.Can you go do this? Can you go pick so and so up go to the store. Pick me up.I Meryat Nice. At the same time, it's...

...very nice and you know with me. I haveyou, know a three year old in a couple weeks and then a ten month old, and soit's like you got doctor's appointments. You've got kids get sick. Like ishappening right now. You know, as parents get older, youknow it's nice to be able to go and do what you got to get it done or if you know I even stupid, simplestuff like if it's going to rain and the grass needs to be cut or laundryneeds to be done. Like A to me, that's fine to do throughout the day as longas you're getting your stuff done, and you got to be careful or not toprocrastinate and like put all your stuff off and pretend like you're,going to work in the evenings, and you know all that stuff I mean. That'sthat's a challenge of it. I think, but yeah work in SPRENTE. I mean I'vealways done it to three, a m. that's a that's regular for you and how t say we we get it. I don't knowwhy I don't like it do like it, but it's when I getmotivated not as well, then you know for graphic design and things like that.We use a you know the guy. That actually is the godfather of nerdbrandy name it years ago, when it was just a podcast between me and him.That's his hours he's the midnight he's like just petting a cat and working.That's that's his thing. It Real! Since we're talking about studies, studiesshow that messy people and people who stay up late are actually smarter all right. Well then, I'm an I well hey, you said, were lively NUSSeither I'm an idiot or I'm just older, and I'm like it's Nine D. Thirty, I'mdone yeah thirty! That's when I wake up o o think im back to like the fiftytime right now haven't having part of the team in the Al. You know having hisflexible schedule to me. This is kind of where, like I'm, not sure where Isit on it or if it's effective but like a lot of people are like I'm all aboutflexibility. I just want the ability to go in the office when I want to, but Iwant to stay home when I want to work from home to me that to me you got to go one wayor the other. Like if you're going to have this kind of a sinker ness type ofbusiness, it's like you've got to set rigid some sort of rigid schedule, likeTuesday through Thursday, everybody's in the office, unless you have anemergency or something because otherwise you end up with youknow some of the things that study talked about where, like the weak tiesare talking to each other or people, are talking to the weak ties andthey're getting information and they're making decisions based on that, but thepeople are sitting at home who don't? Who Want there to talk, lose out onthat information? They lose out on the conversations and it's like you know,when we talk in slack, nobody has a choice. Nobody can go in the officeright now. So, if you're going to make a general conversation, it happens infront of everybody or, if you're going to talk about a particular client in achannel. Everybody can come around and see that everybody just relevant yeah,but you just had a thought. I just had a thought, my step mom. She just gothired at one of her. Like dream companies she's been stopping for likethe last three or four years. I guess, and it's one hundred percent remotethey've never had an office. It's a big company to have like over a hundredemployees. I think and they're based out of like Cincinnati, Texas she'shere other people are in New York, whatever she said, not ask him like howit how's like communication, like do you like the company this this and thatshe was like I've, never had better communication at any company a day inmy life she says: All we do is talk literally.I talked from seven to five in days. It was that many meetings, but but thejust like they have good camaraderie, so they like Kiki, but they also do geta lot of work done and to deal with that in face thing they have theyrandomly meet up, so she went to Cincinnati Company paid for like ahotels and everything, and everyone like worked together for those days. Sothat's what they do and I I always I...

...thought that was really cool. When I toout about that yeah like company retreat, I mean I think yea is like thecompany retreat at the hotel. They have, they might have had a seminar, but Iknow they weren't to while they were there. So everyone got to be together.Everyone who could make it yeah well e t was there's things that that I'd liketo do with John, but you know I can't I mean you got a tiny, tiny attic. Thetop is gonna, say tiny baby. Did you get waite the Florin Walk? She?Actually she actually started walking so yeah heather posted that on facebookbut yeah. It was like on that one time thatI checked facebook to post something about the business. That's the one timein my feet that popped in. That's how I know: I'm not stalking you, it's okay,it yeah yeah, but anyways. What I was going to saywas: is that the you kind of, like even from thecomputer, respect like with coral I'm going to meet her in person for onboarding, because on her machine, there's ways that our processes, thatyou can work on your machine and tricks that I know for either Mac or slack orclick up to some of the thing, the tools that we use on how to expedite atask? You know that sometimes can only be shown in person. One time meetingsare actually very beneficial because you can actually do it and if thatperson learns by watching, you can then begin the process of education wherethey want you to do it, and then you watch them. Do it and you kind of getthat Vibo and then you can just say, see you next week. You know if you want,so that that piece in nerve brand has always been something that I've wantedto do like. Here's. How I use slack, you know, is how I set a reminder formyself and slack. I do it on my phone, how I did it on the computer. It'ssuper easy: it here's how it's done, but if I explain it over zoomed on howit's done it just kind of like okay type in forward Blah Blah la blondethat that's the end of that session, because everybody's busy everybody'sgot all these distractions at great, going on yeah the whole look over your look ocome look over my shoulder, the loss of that I mean t s, that's that's a bigloss. I think there's and I don't know that there's really a a suitable solution at the moment yeah.But it's a to the library I go to a library and work all the time. Y'lljust meet me. You know yeah, I love it. We have, as between myself drama.Sometimes you know the scary tell in people to put their masks on it's agreat office space, guys awesome, St Matthews Sat evy's library. We metthere. It's got a nice, it's got some nice beating rooms and I've never beenthere. I gestehe one downtown. Now I'm gonna go there, that's really far, butI'll do it more, it's kind of like in a weird spot, because it's sit matthewsbut where it's at is actually very nice and we were we were in there. We metfor an hour reserved the space and went in there and because nobody really usesthat, and of course, if they listen is podcast will be like I'm gonna do thatnow. So next time we have a, you know, look what you did you're not supposedto give it away yeah. You know I don't know how to shut up, but I want to say that looking over theshoulder is not for accountability, it is for teaching it is for collaboration.I mean, I know a lot of people that work don't want their employer lookingover their shoulder. We don't do it in that way. I don't do it in that way,because I have been that person that's been in the trenches as an employee,but I've also been a business owner. So I understand both sides where you justkind of like or I've had to express, even in our own organization like whenJason Asks, the question he's not asking for something to be done, he'sasking, because he has no idea and he's just kind of curious, I'm just gettingupdate and getting information, but yeah. It's not like that at all. SoI just wanted to clarify that. Looking over the shoulder with that and you brought up, we brought up likedistractions at home that can take...

...longer other distractions that work from homecan cause which increases this amount of time at work from home. IsTechnology? Internet is not meant for business band with, but ratherentertainment or personal. I've not had any troubles, but I knowpeople who have said you said the Internet is not meantfor work met for anything we just like me. I mean it. You know, I'm notworking, also just the technology itself. It wasnot designed to support all these people working from home in the amountof band with it. It was a going to require to each household yeah, and soit's like it's going to have to we're going to figure that one out Yeah Laura,has been moving files from a server to another server and she's using her bandwith and everything is sent in, like thesee little packets and so the if theband with dips, because band with is not it's not often consistent, so ahome Internet connection, it may dip up and down just because somebody got ontheir phone and checked facebook or somebody's watching a movie on Netflix,while you're in the other room trying to do work, while those packets willget dropped and so what she's moving it takes her three times as long to dothat migration, because she doesn't actually have a dedicated line.Essentially so things still work with wires. Basically, is what I'm saying we forget: We tires our grand andthey're same past hag bring back wires. No, it's a make a bigger, wires yeah, Iguess they're not bigger, but you know like fibroid stuff, that I mean that'sthe big pose this hole has tag. I can be a bring back word, I mean not bigWiese Grin forming right now, this that works at the Haag. When you post the episode,you have passack sentence, no spaces. I would think I won't people will be able to you got to end it with. Is that theHash Tak we had. I worked at a place where we had the. I don't know why it wasthis way, but the web team was actually building websites and we were in thesame room as customer support, so we could hear the phone calls and you know we were just overflow for that-a lot of times, because the influx of it from the nature of that business,but there was one guy we liked because he liked to screw with the customers onthe phone because they would call and want like help with password facebookwhatever set up. So he would constantly say what you say like no spaces, so wetold him we give him a dollar for every time as much as he could work in thephrase on a m on the next call, no spaces. So he would talk to this guyand say like hi. My name is no spaces from Blah Blah Blah no spaces. Can Ihelp you with no spaces, and it was like there's three bucks. You know weactually listened to fifteen minute call and he said it about seventy times.Everybody in the office was like giving, I think he walked, was seventy dollarsthat day, but it was hilarious. I'm like wow thatperson will probably never call again. I don't know if that's a good or badthing, but it was so a bad thing. It's really bad like stories from customerservice. That's all I got anyways the other thing that or challenges.Obviously we talked about time management with a family and home,which I believe also with the study increases. You know the time you spendat work because it's so accessible, you know that's why, but the other one isoffice, supplies and devices.

Business versus personal gets mixed upand employers are not really aware of employee usage. You know, while back from John and Isaid, let's give all the employees a two hundred dollar credit annually foroffice supplies and know if you knew that Camaret, it's like where I'm letus in where I so take it and because, like you, know, employeesspending money on pins and papers and things like that, like that's thebusiness responsibility, we don't will reimburse it as an expense. If you doit, but it's like a lot of places. We noticed early inthe pandemic were starting to do the same thing, because a lot of peoplewere just running out and getting paper for the printers and it's like in anoffice setting. That's not a thing. You do so right. Why? I don't need that, I'mstill getting through supplies I bought for high school. I have unopened spoolsof paper and Line College rule pens, pencils, we'recoming in yeah we're going to pup. I don't have printed paper because Idon't print things. I use other people's princes, but I take notes.Ye'll see I'll, write things down when I'm on. So obviously I overbound incollege and High School, because I love to do that, so I'm I'm still trying toget through. I love just go, come shop in yourcloset, yeah. Yes, it's two hundred dollars part perall right now see how this is goingto go like all right, so a she shows an office supply store out ofher closet to on loose leaf the other one on devices and thingslike that is obviously security. You know yeah exchanging passwords, I think more. Youknow with clients and obviously there's technology to aid with that and keep itsecure. But even things like you know, email management. You know I'm prettytecatebut, even at like price everywhere, where I used to work guid,multiple technology issues that I couldn't fix or just didn't have timeto like self. You know self solved the problem. I don't knowit's probably the worst phrase. I think I've ever came up with you get thepoint. You know having an IT person, be able to walk downstairs from theiroffice and- and you know back up your hard drive or whatever real quick andget it taken care of that. I think that's a big issue and security, andthen we work with an IT company. I know that's been one of their their bigpushes us like remote. It security and yeah get that done with so manyemployees working from home. Now, that's it thanks. Everybody forlistening will see you next week and remember, keep your nerd branch strong.

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