Episode · 3 weeks ago

Legacy Brands and Your Favorite Characters Hitting Public Domain


On this episode of the NerdBrand podcast, we're discussing Legacy Brands. Some brands have been around for years, others decades, and a few for centuries. Let's discuss a few household names with notable legacies and some that have properties coming into public domain in 2024.

That last comment is a hint that on January 1, 2024, we’ll see the expiration of the copyright for Steamboat Willie — and with it Disney’s claim to the film’s star, Mickey Mouse. The copyrights to Superman, Batman, Disney’s Snow White, and early Looney Tunes characters will also fall into the public domain between 2031 and 2035.

At the which I don't know what happened, and we say that after every podcast, Ithink what just happened: Eboraci as Davis. This is Mitch- andthis is John E, so we're here today we're going to talk about legacy,brands or brand legacy depends. It does depend, I don't youwant me to define it. Please do lise, please do so. A legacy brand is kind of somethingthat's been like retired or expired by the company, but a lot of people stilluse it. So like windows, xp right, that's been sort of deprecated thatmakes monetti everywhere. Yeah, I'm sorry, it's not that do Yi's a little bit.What I and brain legacys more, like you, know, brand value, the normal stuff. Weyou just talk about brand equity like the apples and Nikes of the world andpen right yeah. Well, you know the thing that I'm finding is that if youactually give a term now- and you provide the definition to it, it's notenough. You got to provide a story, and then, if you provide that story, youcan actually sum up like what it's about. Like I've been havingconversations about what is and we're going to talk about this on a futureepisode, what is brand positioning because a lot of people are givingpitches there's more networking events happening. People are talking abouttheir companies and what they do, but actually it's very confusing, and it'snot really what they do so they're taking the wrong term and applying itto their organization and everybody's, like Oh, you do that it's like! No,they don't so we have to you know, but that's kind of what we do. We get tocome in the table and kind of clarify that a bit because brand positioning ishow you sit in the mind of your consumer, O your product or whatever soexample, is. When you hear the name Doritos, you don't think about. Youknow root beer, which is on the topic today, as well, so anyways on thisepisode, we're talking about legacy brand. Some brands been around foryears other decades, a few centuries more. Let's discuss that and some ofthe properties that might be coming into public domain in two thousand andtwenty four. So we'll try to get to that, because there's some excitingstuff get ready to happen. US That's the last impression I'll probably do onthis morning, because that sounds weird. It was a good effort yeah and it was aneffort anyway, but thank you John for stating level setting what is a legacy.Braves is brand legacy, but mish has come with like fancy. No well. No, Ijust when, when you mentioned, the topic is gonna, be legacy. Brands of Ithought legacies. I thought you know. You know you branch kind of pop upright and left these days. I mean it, I guess, because of the digital age ityou know, entrepreneurship is kind of exploded, so there's lots of pins yeahpopping up all over the place. Oh you know what about the ones that have hadstaying power. The ones have been around for a long time, so it's kind ofa little quick curse. Research and I just thought was interesting. Some ofthese brands that still market how long they've actually been around. I justthought that was kind of interesting. For example, Stella Artois, which Iguess over the last ten years, has kind of risen. The prominence they've done alot more advertising, at least in the United States, they've been aroundsince n thirteen and sixty six MMMA. That's not that long. I don't thinkpeople speaking English during that time would be English that we wouldeven understand you know right. I mean I remember somebody like there's pepetescholars out there like how people walked even was different. You know, like it's weird, you know, there's somethings, there's just the things you could find on youtube when diving intohistory, because I love history, yeah I get down those rabbit holes and that'swhat triggered me to think about that. When you said thirteen, I was like Ohwow. This is like and that when drinkery tails yeah, you know were said from it, Germanyrights, you know, France, it's Awsome, it couldbe. I didn't I didn't look at. I just...

...didn't. You know random things I at sothis podcast. If you know what it is, may not the comments below yeah t eanybody out there mayotte comments. MATURIDI did notthey're not from there they're from X. I m thinking there from Belgium yeahbecause the build it's always right. I don't bilge hate to be confused withthe French, because their language in so familiar anyway. I thought that wasinteresting. You always know a little that's why? Who knows that yeah? Wejust lost a Belgian audience well, for, I think, O French. I don't know part ofwhere I got, that was the Hercule Pero Paro, the the detective and the age,the Christy novels, okay, as like a Rosper, no, not Carola. Okay, part of his character is he's alwaysbin, because his name sounds French, he's actually from Belgium and wouldirritate him when people would infuse him for ING French. Okay with the mining, you guys come upwith a singular language so that people wouldn't confuse you in all their fault.This also brought to by the fact of what we consider old in the UnitedStates versus when you go to Europe when things are ancient yeah but, forexample, Tobasco has been around since eighteen. Sixty five hmm making youreggs takes good every morning. Still a brand I didn't know was still around aremember hearing about it. We'll move on yeah right. I remember hearing about this, one likein history class like in high school, something the Hudson Bay Company. What do they do this? They started outas a fas fur traders. You know when North America opened up, and you knowonce people started settling here, they've been around since sixteenseventy they're still around. They have retail stores in Canada. I didn't knowthat interesting. I thought that was interesting. It is one one more author.I ad I thought was interesting. It's it's a name plate of a brand but whichin itself is sort of a brand, but the Chevy suburban has been around inthousand nine hundred an thirty five and it's the oldest continuous, autoname plate in existence. Wow did not know that yep O for you out therelistening or watching you're. Like my I got some, I learned something today andthis this goes to John's point about brand legacy. I mean, that's pretty youthink about it. That's any of these. Have that kind of brand longevity is, I mean, that's that'sadmirable yeah I mean because the power that gives your brand alone, your youromnipresent people just take you, and I mean this in a good way. They take youfor granted. Your you've always been there m you're, not the new kid on theblock. You don't have to fight anybody. You've built a singular reputation foryourself and I'm trying to think if there's any brands that have beenaround with that kind of length that have stumbled in recent years and if ithave kind of lost their way- and I I mean Pepsi's kind of had it's in-misses yeah the last twenty years yeah, I think. Well, I think all brands Imean we all remember the whole like new coke tobacce. I mean there's stuff likethat, and I mean like I guess PR issues but like Toyota, allthe auto auto manufacturers have had you know the recalls or their carsrolling over tire manufacturers and like stuff like that folks wagon had their the bacle not toolong ago, and now you have like the beetle that they've embraced that kindof root. Second brought it back. You made an intering designation thatkind of there in your in your come, and that is the PR aspect of brand awareness or of a brand versesthem. The conscious marketing effort m thebrand and how things that happen in the in the natural...

...economic ecosystem. With Your brandverses the thing, the marketing effort you consciously enter into the endeavors you to enterinto to push your brand, there can be missteps on either side. Of that I mean you talk about Volkswagon and theretheir problems, coke and their problem with new coke. That was a marketingstumble products. Also. I, like you, mentionedfirestone and other brands to have had product problems, how those are twodifferent sort of stumbles, but the way you can address them arefair kind of similar. You come back and and sort of course correct through randing and marketing. I mean that tome: that's the one of the biggest values of having that. I you know ofbeing a brand with a lot of equity and legacy. As you have that ability to beokay, you know so we older went through huge issues. Nobody stopped buying Toyotas, you knowI came and went, and the market doesn't really forget necessarily, but theyhave enough equity they've. You know it's like a bank account they'veinvested enough over the years to have a withdraw in a sense, and so which isan excellent segway, because all the stuff we're talking about today, ifyou're listening to this podcast you're panel, like I remember something tohappen a couple weeks ago with major brand that just rebraided and calleditself something weird, because you know it's all met yeah, so timing, doing so to kind ofget the market and people to forget about like the hoops is like reallyimportant, and I'm going to say that the timing of this re brand project forMeta was not well timed on by timing. I've just- and this is a whole othertopic for a podcast. I just don't know about that. Name to me. It just seemslazy. I they leaning into like Meta verse and because they want to beperceived as doing a lot more than just so some social networking there, theother technology they do. I mean to me it's sort of like years ago. You knowin my generation we were like. We know one day, there's going to be twointernets. There's going to be the Internet, which there's already twoInternet by the way, there's you know the dark web and all that, but it'slike the Internet for those that pay for it and knows that it is just freeand the free is going to be less valuable to you. Information wise isthe paid version. So the page. This is sort of like what I see steering intothat. So you got the metaverse and you just got like you know, whatever youget from att or whatever, and I I really I mean that because it's likewhat are they trying to do with this, because right now in regard, some folksare saying like this is like a free game you download for Var for, likethree bucks off the Internet. This doesn't look like anything impressiveright now to me, like I said, I think the name itself to me just comes off aslazy, because we're kind of in an age where brands really spend a lot of timeand energy crafting a name that really creates a persona for who they are M,then, is a word. You pull out of the dictionary, and not only that is become a verycommon colloquial term yeah. Well as a developer to me,Meta data is a big deal. I mean it's o images. It's in a lot of things. You know being a board press developerfor like twelve years, it's like there's a post metal table in thedatabase and men. A lot of stuff goes in there about what occurs on your side.You know that I get that's probably where theinspiration yeah from doubt. They want to create a Web that is probably moresecure or feel secure. So I can kind of see like why I was chosen, but I'm,like you know I'll just say like in Nerra nd, the Brandin expertise andeverything I always yield to John and Mitch for reason, because I'm a webdeveloper, we don't really come up with all these good ideas. When it comes tonames, I mean I just I would have hoped they came upwith something novel. Well that then something fresh. I guess that's that'swhat it's just that it doesn't sound...

...fresh to me. It's going to be a term.That's dated well, they've been face five year for what, since two thousandand five well, Coca Cola has been Coca Cola since the turn of the century.Right, but still the point, is it's been that way like? I don't I stillcall the seers tower the sears tower. I don't call it. The will is power. Youknow, even though it's been around since the S and it's just like, I don'tsee unless there is really heavy publications and PR really heavy pushonline every digital way and the own the apposite and everything unless theyreally push that name, people are still going to call it. FACEBOOK, L, youraise a ray good point. I mean I thought about this. I was walking thedogs last night, thinking about this topic, we're talking about, and thereare terms to become so commonplace and some become so ingrained in the popularculture that they kind of take on it's a brand name that can take on the whole category. It exists in yes,for example, coke you, you can go into a restaurant and somebody say whatwould you like drink o? What kind of coke do you have there'sreally only one coke yeah yeah, some parts of the country. They say popright, you know, but but you get my point it so do yeah. We don't likethose places. We use, don't rot there. We re overthose places, but when you have when you it s that I mean your point aboutfacebook is is well taken. Is it they regardless it'll, be interesting towatch that regardless? How long do they go with with Meta which are probablygoing to stick with it whenever I think they're too farinvested in to it face? Maybe facebook has begun, just roll back, yeahfacebook is become so in grain and everybody psyche. It's gonna. It'sgoing to take a hole. That's why I think it would have been more valuableto come up with a name that had the same kind of novelty, the same kind of kind of interestingclarity of of what they were about. I would have changed nothing really aboutthe name, but I would have an that's a head of the discussion. I would havechanged their purpose. I would have done something to help redirect and ingrain, in the mounds of people what their intentions were. Now we aretalking about a nap that was designed and harbor to basically a hot er, nottype thing. Let's I forget where some of the these things started. You knowthey weren't exactly from an Alteris tic background. You know I'll just takeit at that, but I would have not changed the name because sometimes whenyou have a name and it's sticks, you've run into something you're like okay.That can build on that. You had gold yeah, so you got the name, the voice,all that's going to stay the same. It's the tones that are different. We talkedabout tone of your brand. You know on this podcast we're very goofy and funand try to be entertaining give you a glimpse into our world and what we knowabout branding and web and marketing and all these things. Then you go to channels that John andCamara manage on line, and you get a different kind of tone. Moreprofessional is a little bit more like here's, the information. This is whatthis is. Here's, why it's very like the lie boot you know. So I think thatbeing aware, self aware is the most important thing to a brand being selfaware, and I feel, like the facebook is kind of like what you said: They'velost their way and they've gone through a lot of stuff. Lately, Oh yeah, I meanthat's a D, which is why they're doing what they're doing they want to beperceived differently. Huh, I m sure they may not de get the spotlight onwell yeah yeah, but a name change e e t I e amplified. They want to change theintensity of that light. That was a good point. Yeah. It's agood way to say that they want a software more flattering light on thered, aniline em. What are you guys up to? I don't see anything in their branditself. That says we're changing the way, we're doing things. I don'tbelieve it but like I was watching a roku channel and saw facebook ad andthey were running ads, promoting Internet regulation and I thought waitwhat I was like. I don't believe anything you guys are saying or oneabout Internet regulation and also I don't want the Internet regulated right.It was a weird position to me, like from from a brand that thrives on theInternet and kind of wants that youthful...

...culture and the youth audience to bedrawn to them to support regulating the thing that the etyth a brand crisis yougin of, want to be like, maybe just be quiet for a little bit, because I meanyou know anything we say is going to be miscontrued taken out of proportion. Imean there's just a lot, you know and just being silent. Well, I think partof it, maybe is you know, they're being a lot of flak for censoring people,because I mean this is a self perpetuatingmechanism, it's kind of come into being. In that you know,people have taken for granted. Facebook is a free site. I go to and I putinformation out there about myself or say what I want to say and they've gotten used to kind of anatmosphere that intentionally or intentionallysays you can do what you want. Then, the last couple of years they'vesaying well: No, no! No we're going to decide what you can put on our platforma granted. It's their play. It's their sandbox! You man not have read theterms of in conditions of participation, but it's it's their property. What they're trying to do is they'retrying to so. Okay, we've been looked at as a bad kakas. We're supposedlycensoring people yeah. Well. If the government comes in and starts doing it,then we're not the bad gun anymore yeah, it's late! Again, it's lazy yeah, Imean well. My favorite is the twitter CEO. I love him and how he handledhimself in the questionings that he hadn't taken in Congress, and I knowthat a lot of the other c gills they would give these long expounding. Youknow expositions to an answer and you got to remember a congeror senatorwhatever is a lawyer here they're going to ask you the same question four orfive times in a different way, try to catch it m, so I loved how he was justlike. No, that's not true, and then he stopped talking and then there's thisawkward pregnant post, a Li love you because he's not giving him anywhere togo because he's flat, saying no, not true, no, not true and then juststopping and he said, and he maintained twitters a you know, town square. They deviatefrom that. Then that happens and of course he explained like this is how weregulate that. Of course, you know nobody needs to be running into a townsquare, doing silly things, but it's time at the end of the day he's like wedon't deviate from that. So I think twitter has really done a lot tokind of clean itself up. You know I've been on there more just kind ofbrowsing as a voyeur. You know, and I've been. Is that thought the rightword? I shouldn't say that we would you OAL, don't know you all about intent. Idon't work here. Let me see this. I mean I could go into a long diet. Tribeof please go meraut whether or not the rules, these social platforms, whether the employer consume arbitraryat times. Nevertheless, the bottom line is it's their platform. They own it,whether you or not. You like, I said you're aware what those terms of and ofyou are. Oh, that's, not their fault and that's not their problem. They haverules and, if you're going to play in there on their playground, you have toplay by their rule. I think, to a certain degree yeah. That's true. Imean that, but you know to the to the episode we did with Shane. It's likerented land right right, exactly business owners, I think, have you know,because it's so expensive to do like branding and advertising and Web, andall that you know it's really easy to fire up a facebook, page business pageand then start marting. But we know the visibility of those pages is almost asZilch m. you know organically, I mean it's really not because facebook is allabout connecting people, not people to faceless entities or businesses, and soI think that that that happened like what two three years ago, where theyjust really kind of said. You know what I mean it was right when they wentpublic so or like twenty six, two thousand and fifteen yeah, I mean youstarted to fill the squeeze and the Algorithm Yeah. You didn't get thatorganic reach anymore, right yeah. So now you had to like dump a bunch ofmoney and ads, but then everybody was like I'm no really getting a ras out ofthis return on TSP out of this, my really is that I've never been. I'vealways been in the opnion that now you...

...know you have to spend like three timesthe amount of money to get some sort of return on facebook. You know we knowotherwise on other platforms, that's not true, but that's always how I feltso if you spent two thousand dollars you need to expect. Maybe you get backthree? Maybe so I always felt that it was a little weird on facebook to tryto figure out like what am I going to get. If I dump into this courseeverybody jumps at the fifty rs yeah I mean it depends. I mean for like abusiness to business service. Yeah you're not really going to see that R,but I mean e commerce. Businesses have been driving a that's why everybody'slosing their losing their head over the the apple ils changes, because it'sit's having a legit, just murderous impact on small businesses and ecommerce, businesses who were getting four or five times return on edge, pendiceboat. So it's a that's a mess into itself and it's that's just beginning.I mean it's a multi year effort at this point for a lot of companies to figureout how to track the conversions and you know get back to where they werewhen this is all goes back to the whole privacy issue. Right I mean it's. Thiswhole effort people finally waking up, and this goes back to terms of use andall that and people not being aware being used to feeling like I can go onthese platforms and it's free wheeling anything goes. Oh wait, they're notdoing this out of the goodness of their heart they're, collecting data that,with these interactions on ther monetizing it that's the interestingthat's interesting debate happening right now is like a lot of smallbusinesses are genuinely being harmed, yeah yeah by the privacy window comingdown and and them not being able to market like they used to. But then theother side of it is like yeah, but they were doing that because this other intofacebook was border on Staling people's identity andperson yeah to provide the marketing mechanism. It's just a weird, like youdon't like to see small businesses harmed, obviously shutting down orhaving revenue drops, but O. it's probably another podcast episode todebate about gated, undated content, because I have been seeing a lot moregated tent, like on a goes back to, and I think that that's going to happen andthat's the way that so and so publisher can insulate themselves from beingexposed. Like that, you know anyways. The last thing I want to kind of hit on,because I mentioned it earlier. There are things coming up for public domainthat is speaking of legacy yeah, so Disney and micky mouse of all things sosteamboat William for ticular. Is it yes steam boat? Will I so the last tandis January first of two thousand and twenty four will see the expirationcopyright for steamboat Willie and with it Disney claim to the film's starMickey Mouse. So is this the first time this has comeup in the public because it it's been around for so we I can't. I mean, Ithink it's something a hundred plus years or whatever. So it's been, youknow about that and that's why, because also copy rights to Superman Batman, aswell as Disney Snow White and early line tunes characters were all fallingto public domain between two thousand and thirty one. In two thousand andthirty, five O technically wasn't snow white, probably public domain. At thetime that Disney created the animated film, I mean it's a grim. I think it'sa brother. It goes back to a brother re, sometimes yeah, but I mean it's likeJohn Carter as it John Carter, Mars, yeah, even that igarapes yeah, eventhat's public domain and they made a movie out of it and then it floppedbecause everybody wanted to see lower ax more than they wanted to see. Thatfrom that, that brings up makes in Mucii want to go back and research this,because there is a there's. Somebody who owns the rights to a a rise borrows properties. Well, they on the works inthe family, the family, the family, stills yeah yeah, but they don't reallylike. If you want to grab it and read it public ate it, you know, dosomething with it like that you can you just have to reach out to them, say heywe're going to do that. I mean there's not a lot in the same thing with RobertHoward and the CONAN yeah yeah CONAN universal and am as well. There is abunch of them that we will see over the... five to six years that are goingto expire and re, going to see a lot of creativity, probably from lawyer teams,especially for this. I mouse is up for like that they're going to be like whoa holdon a minute. You know, and and that's what you do, I don't know it's justgoing to be really interesting to watch what happens. W L A I mean now grantedWalt Disney created Mickey Mouse H. The company is still not the pubby tradedcompany. Oh Boy, what do y? U H, k what could happen. I mean good like anothercompany on on to come in and or you know another bit in blame come in andtake it, I'm not a lawyer. This is not legal, I vice. I have no idea really,but I think that it's sort of really close to what we saw with that JamesGunn doing a knock off of a superman story with Sony Studios, but it wasbright, burn, yeah, and I think it's kind of like that, because it'sbasically superman, but it's a horror movie and it's the same exactcharacters, but they are not named, can't get or anything like that. What?If what? If Super Man had been really really bad yeah, you know what if helike, became an adolescent and used his laser vision to just kill his teacherbecause he didn't like the homework. I mean it was kind of that kind of athing, and then he used the same title cards by the way, his man of steel thatZack snotter use, which I thought was really really funny, but anyways I digress. It's just. Ifeel like that that, but then more in you could be more, probably implicitwith the fact that this is this character, yeah an I can actually usetheir name t. If I understand correctly it's like Dracula, I mean anybody canmake a dracul movie without having to pay any kind of royal to your feet, tomake the family of Bram stoker or any of that orFrankenstein or you know, ulysses. You know the Odyssey in it.You can. I can make those move because that stuff, nobody really owns it nowright yeah, so you know it's just. I think that's what it is. I think that,instead of creating characters that you know we all know now you can just say it and I thinkthat that's what it is now what it gets into merch. That's really going to be ahard one to answer, because that's when you're like like, if we were to put outmerchandise and we put Batman on our shirts and nerve brand there, thatwould be really cool. I don't imagine that could not be a possibility in thefuture, but you know you're making money off that icon. You have somebodyelse's property exactly so now you do have to get into that royalty, mess andkind of like like okay. What happens here because I mean it same thing withsports teams. You know, there's a reason that on certainchannels the NFL has their opening sound. Even the music, now you're notgoing to find that anywhere else and you're not allowed to play it or use itright right, and so otherwise you get a law suit, but when it gets into publicif it gets into public domain another fifty seventy years from now. Wellwhoops, you know, let's start making Mickey Mouse March, making no more say that three timesfast, I'm not gonna. After quoting an anchor man, we likeyeah, they all the flash ran out of fumes. I don't know what you I'm likeall right, waterless, fus mise does he have to register with the PA orsomething I mean a Mokes Wig, and with that I think, that's a goodrap to the end of that circle. That's right! It has Yari rightback around that brought that right back around. So if you want to listento this podcast or subscribe to it, go find us anywhere online at nor brandagency, or you can go to nerve brand agency Com podcast and then you canwatch or listen to this podcast special thanks to the Pekes guys. You guys areawesome. You've done a great job. I appreciate you so much for helping. Youknow, produce this and finish it out and all that it's been a it's beenawesome so other with that. I don't really havemuch else to you: O Business, an O, Yo business, any new business will do theRogerson before I say, I'm H Sergeant... arms. I've always wanted to be oneof those yeah yeah and when you have a when youhave a board or whatever it's called you've got, you know like a presidentand a treasurer and a secretary and a Saranoora, I thought: Do they like pull out a sword and ifpeople get Alan, they kept the the hand off for service and I've never met asergeant of all on the surgeon, general or something all right with that again.Thank you for listening and tune a next time and remember, keep your nervefrands, tol t t.

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