Episode · 2 months ago

We Know What You Buy


In this episode of the NerdBrand podcast, we’re discussing Shang Chi and purchase behavior targeting. If you like Marvel movies, well...they know it, and they probably also know what candy bar at the concession stand you buy all the time.

Creepy? A little.

Hi Everybody, I'm Jason Davis in theNERD brand podcast, the branding and marketing from a nerds point of viewwhere we talk about well raining and marketing. So we do this on anchor dot.FM anchored is the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me explain: It's free,there's creation tools that allow you to record and edit your podcast rightfrom your phone, a computer an or will distribute your podcast for you, so Ican be here on spotify, apple, podcast and any more you can make money fromyour podcast with no minimum listener ship. It's everything you need to makea podcast in one place, so download the anchor APP or go to anchor did F M toget started. misgotten hair cut everybody all of them yeah he got all of them cut,not just a few, because you know two thousand and twenty. We were all on abudget all right. Well, here we go. Let's start the show all I welcome to the nerve podcasteverybody on your hose Jason! That's Jonathan! That's Mitch! Today we'regoing to talk about well! Well, we know what you buy so, but we're going to talk about ChangChee since nerd. You know it's in the name and then the branding part of thatwe're going to talk about what it. What's. What if I got on myshow notes that I am terrible at remembering it's a it's basically behavioral targetingpurchase behavior targeting I'll say that again purchase behavior. Targetingnow turn our industry just loves, ACRONYMS and terms. Doesn't it I don'tknow what purchase behavior targeting is I probably do, but this is a newterm. It is actually very new. I mean it's probably not new and in the senseof weeks old, but it's it is new, because digital advertising has hit awall. I think we've talked about that before on our last episode about someof the channels and what you know some of the distribution channels, digitaladvertising, you John You shared in depth a lot about the tactics that areout there and the things that are changed, especially with Io, is fifteen,and with it you know, email, social, media and everything. So a lot of digital advertising or digitalads that are served because everybody thinks of Google or facebook there'smore than that, but at the end of the day, they have also started to hit awall on the return on their ads pen, their test not as high as they were, orthey would like. So the personal behavior targeting isjust digital advertising method. It enables marketers to target campaignsdirectly at the people who are most likely to buy, which we've all heardthat before, but it's based on what they've bought before. So this isn'tdata that you're just going to acquire or purchase or buy. These areinventories and have already been collected I'll give a shout out to NC,for example, because we are talking about movies. They have basically a data set of behavioral dataof what people buy. I don't know if it's in depth or true or not would liketo have maybe one of the reps on the show and talk about like do they knowwhat Candy Bar I like to buy at the concession stand, and what auditorium Ilike to sit in. You know, reserve seating, I'm sure when the ticket ispurchased. All that data goes in it's like John Likes to sit in Artorius,seven at seat number, forty six and he enjoys a Milky Way now and then now I'm a snickers guy yeah. I am too yeah. I I really youtube match. Actually push comes to shove, I'm more of a baby.ROOTKIT BE HONEST! Yet you know and just get that out ofher but yeah to Jonathan to Jonathan's point you know chocolate and Carameland Nougat are nothing without the nuts...

...yeah. You don't hear that on every podcastout there. That's that exists. So that's that's new thanks for INNOUCENTAMich. So anyway, quick e, there's your clip. There's your clip real quick. How often does it push cometo show with candy butters yeah really, but it depends how hungry I am when Iget to the check out lane of the grocery like Benny White hungry or if,if I've had to run to the grocery without eating anything, which meansI'm going to spend probably forty dollars more in general- and you know the Candy BarRock is right. The Candy Bar Rack is right there by the check out lane islike M: I'm Hungry, Oh you're, an impulse, spire, okay, well thing! Nojust about it, I'm hungry and dude. Do I want to wait until I get home and getall the groceries put away and then have time to cook to eat or do I wantto grab him is going to kind of tide me over, so I don't go home and scream ateverybody and bite people's heads, offt, okay, okay, yeah, I like to be out if I eecee scream I'll, be verysurprised, yeah. We are way off track. Let's get!Let's get first up. Let's Talk Change, Gee! Let's talk about the movie, soMichou. The Marvel expert here you obviously have been waiting for this isa character that you love so I'll. Let you start with your opening thoughtsabout the movie, the character, because I know a lot of people listening arelike well, I don't really want to listen to about how is but Shang she.What's all this have to do with behavioral. You know targeting and all that, butwe're going to get there so basically Shang Chi, the master of Confu, worked alongside several members of him, the British secret service in my eitherin my five room, my six, I never can remember the difference between the two so that played into it- and I don'tknow if you face familiar with Fu Manchu the there was a series of novelswrit by Guy Name, Sax Romer about this villain this. This super villain.Basically his name was Fu Manchu, a Chinese. He was a master of science andwas going to take over the world. Think Bond Villain. Okay, I mean there's,there's fans that are very comic book, deep and knowing the knowledge of thecharacters. But then this is being distributed to an audience that reallyeither has no idea about the character or they have very minimal knowledge. So,for example, the marketing actually began before the Super Bowl, but it wasduring the Super Bowl that the first trailer dropped. So there's been a lot of talk anddiscussion online on several nerd news channels that you know the marketing has been veryquiet. It hasn't been widely, as just you know, distributed as a larger film,but you know, one of the. The things is is that the film only calls Marvel onehundred and fifty million dollars to produce and that's in comparison towhat we discussed about black widow and a couple other episodes back. Wediscussed the marketing and the branding projects and who they pardonwith on that movie. That was a two hundred million dollar production movie.Now, typically, that means marketing is included in that budget. Sometimes, Ithink that's not true, but I'm not in the movie industry. I could becompletely absolutely wrong, but for now we'll have to assume that in thehundred and fifty million that includes the marketing. So that's a pretty lowproduction number and marketing, for example, Star track films are basicallya hundred million dollars to produce, and you know that they're pretty lowthe considered on the low- and even you call on our million on in so you know you kind of have to kind oflook at it like that. To get a perspective now, one interesting fact about this was: isthat fifty million of that and US dollars value of US dollars was a taxcredit provided by Stralia, so Australia, l, basically say Hiss,some money make a movie here and no, that's not my take on anAustralian accent. I'm just saying that it kind of feels a little bit like ayou know not quite another to the table..., but it's just a very odd thingthat I found in researching this film and its production, and it was like whywhy you know so I mean it's, I mean think about it, and that's that's why,for a long time, that's why Georgia has become a hot bit for film production.It's why Louisiana was a hot like a film production is because they weregoffering tax credits to the to the movie makers to come, make their moviesthere. It's they just instead of instead of the state doing it. Now youhad a whole country yeah offering tit prigs yeah, but the lower budget has reallylike, like how much distribution could be done across channels for, but it'sbecause we do media Bas for audio video ott things like that, and we know likewhat those can cost certain. You know, customers that we do that for so whenyou start thinking about like a national distribution like that, I meanyou. Just fifty million seems like honestly doesn't seem like enough incomparison to what in game did, because in games marketing was two hundredmillion, but that was in game yeah I mean you think of did they run on headduring during the Super Bowl or just yeah? I I well, I mean out of fifty million, I mean we knowhow much Os cost yeah yeah most people e, like a million dollars, I'm like no,that was back in the s now they're tre four times that much so for spot.There's, like a thirty second spot, I think, is what at I don't. It may havebeen like the. I don't think it was a full trailer. Full trailers like havebeen at thirty or something- and that's like you know, probably not really. Iguess I had production already taken care of. I guess you don't have toproduce a commercial, but you know that's just to get the thing into thespot into the mix so yeah I mean somebody had to take the time to buythat negotiate. It place it all that good stuff, but then the editing of thetrailer is either done. Well, I don't even know how much of that's done anymore by studios I mean mostly it's marketing firms. Now that are editingthese things, for you know the purpose of the by and everything now so I don't know that. I mean I've heard mixed things about the movieas far as the effects and all that which that's not what we're not here tolike criticize the movie, because that's not our stick on this podcast,but from the marketing angle it does. I would agree that it is pretty light,but given the budget, I kind of understand why the studio just didn't pump enough intothat. You know on their end, they just, I think I would bet they used most ofthat tax credit to be able to fund the marketing, and that was it and the restof it went toward production and actor salaries and everything else. You think there weren't there weren't alot of huge names in this movie, so they didn't haveprobably quite the salary load that they've had for I mean yet you used engamins example. Everybody was in that movie. So yeah I mean you know yeah, but speaking about Disney, I'm going tochange gears and do the segway. Now, because we are all about ads,everything is an ad at nerd brand Disney plus is going to. Possibly theyare thinking about running ads on their platform. Big surprise who I know depend probably it wouldprobably be depending on which you know whether you got the basic service or ifyou got the Premiere Yeah Alf, whether you got Disney closer Disney plus pluse, like it's the Hulu, it's it's like Hulu, but it's on Disney play it's thesame model. We all know. That's what's going to happen if you're paying likesix ninety nine a month, you're going to see ads if you're, not if you'repaying fourteen, whatever you're, probably not think about it. I mean- and I've said this for quite a whilenow, but everybody screamed that network television, a dine, no networktelevision is dying, isn't dying. It's evolving instead of having networksthat are coming through broadcast. You've got networks that are basicallythe APPs as you subscribe to...

Holos just in the middle it S. don't by.I don't hear anything about him, any yeah, THAT'S A L! It wouldn't surprise me if they rollthat you know roll that away eventually, because that's what that's within theDisney network or right yeah, it is I it doesn't make sense, because I meanyou know over the air ab ABC, that's Disney so and then it's sort of like why not-and I think CBS is like part of paramount part of Viacom so and thenthey've got their own streaming thing, which I don't know what you'll find ontheir beyond star track. That you'd maybe want to watch in some weirdlooking cling. ONS that aren't cling ons in my opinion, but that's anotherpodcast, so yeah it seems like the Disney. So Iguess my point is: is like they're all starting to kind of they've gonethrough this evolution of fragmenting and, like you said, mich theyreevolving in a good, an rated, probably condensed now they're going to do likebanks in America, they're just kind of like all small ones, are going to getup to absorbed up by the bigger one and now you're just going to have like youhave in broadcast the big three years, a big four! That's it what's interesting! I I don't know. Ifany you guys have noticed, I mean how do you guys have in tennis hooked upyour television for broadcast television? I do T, I don't watch it too much, but Ithought about it. Oddly enough, I do and it's kind of surprising now thevariety the variety broadcast channels there are now thatwasn't there prior to the deal revolution so again, pursuer targetingis an emerging digital advertising method that enables marketers to targetcampaigns directly at the people who are most likely to buy based upon whatthey've bought, before which I know many people are like that's scary, andyou know in a way I guess, depending on what you want to buy, youknow if you like candy, then you're going to see a lot of candy ads. If youlike other things, then you'll see those. This is a grated podcast now soI'll just leave it at that, but yeah. So there is prosing cons to this. Youknow it sounds really cool. I could see for e commerce marketing. I know Johnwill be like yeah, but in other areas for cost things likethat, hmm we would get his famous a man start all depends on the cost andthe return I mean. Obviously, if you can get your brand in front of peoplewho are in the market or people who have purchased this product or peoplewho are, you know, have a very high and tent to purchase, that's what we're shooting for that'stea. That's the low hanging fruit. I mean it's not the whole picture, butit's still lothing fruit that you can definitely capitalize on and and it'svery profitable, because you're not going to spend a whole lot to convertthese people they're ready to go so it's a you know it's it and the platforms have at least claimto do this and some capacity for a while. You know I know I mean thefacebooks and googles of the world. You can optimize your campaigns forthoseparticular conversion goals and it's supposed to show your content toyou know on facebook, for example, if you, if you set the conversion, go topeople who are likely to watch video edge, it will continue to show yourvideo ed to more people who, like to watch video edge, less people who don'tlike to watch them and same for you know. I don't know how all this stuffis getting messed up, because you could previously obviously target people whohave purchased. You know through e commerce,h with with the iowas updates kind of interfering with facebooks conversion.At least you know it's, I don't know if that's still still a viable channel ornot. I think that you know you're getting when talking about thesesolutions. It's getting into more programmatic advertising, it's not,which is a term that isn't. I don't hear a whole lot, but it's a thing.That's when you start hearing about, I think p targeting go fencing and allthat kind of stuff going on. I've always told people to come to us forthat first or if they mentioned that...

...that, let's back up for a minute, let'stalk about what you're going to try to do, because one of the cons about thatis your ads will fail. If you don't have the proper audience knowledge. Soif you don't know exactly who you're targeting or what you're saying likeeven for us, when we talk about Brandon Messaging, the Ad, what does it say onit? What does it look like? Is it something they keep? You Know Michashaking his head? Yes, because he will potifer again on this if he needs to o that from yeah, it's something thatif you don't have that figured out you're spending tens of thousands ofdollars. Yes on advertising for programmatic channels that just are notgoing to hit their targets so with Disney, for example, opens up over thetop. You Know Ott they. You know you're going to spend a lot of money. I meanthat's typically, we've seen costs thirty, thirty five C pm and you knowwell, if that's not your audience, isn't on Disney plus you just threwaway a bunch of money. So that's kind of like how I dove tellthis episode back in to you know nerd anyway, so it could also lead toadvertising overload like you kind of hit just a bit on it. John and you kindof said, like gets messed up, and you know it shows video to more people thatwant to see video and less to those that don't. But I eventually like allI'm seeing, is video ads and I don't know I'm kind of tired of seeing that yeah man, we definitely I mean even Honer running just basic display heads their google. I mean we're monitoringfatigue when we start to see you know the click through rates and theconversion rates dip on any kind of ED. It's you know a consideration is thatwe're hitting these people too often and they're just starting to ignore itor you know, on platforms like facebook, they're, hiding it or they're, leavingnegative feedback or whatever, and it's H, I wot that yeah at fatigue is a realthing. I think Mitchels, that, after twenty something plus years inadvertising, you very well aware of what ad fatigue is and how to avoidthat. What not to do or such, but well I mean part- I mean whether it'sdigital print, whatever the case I mean, do you want to be loud or you want tobe interesting. People get tired of seeing you that you're not interestinganymore, unless you're saying something to pet, especially now, unless you'resaying something to someone number one that has an interest in what you haveto offer and to your present in that's a way. That's this intriguing and it ishave some kind of promise of satisfying a need or desire. They have then you're.Just you know: you're you're, just shooting fireworks off for the sake ofShit, nough firework you're, not you're, not you know, you're not going to you're not going to reap the benefitsof that just going to spend money. I know it's Friday when Mich does thesethings and my in my head, I have this cinema playing and I just had this guyin the middle of the street, just with the Roman candle in his hand, justshooting it off going like Friday. It's just jason goes to weird places a it's like a talk about baby ruth thatwas like baby ruth. I just went right back to gonys. Okay now I know where that went. Theamount of things that are reaching out for people's attention today has increased exponentially. So it's called stressed anxiety. I meanit's just it. What is this again? There's no magic bullet and itstill takes time and part of that is because people are bombarded at everyturn by by every device in every channel that they have available tothem and they're making use of more of those devices in those channels. Soit's the more things change the more they stay. The same, I guess andthey're trying to everybody's trying to keep up a a lot of people. You knowsome people, don't care about the tech changes and all that, but most peopleare trying to keep up like I'm seeing I've had friends even mentioned, likethe new streaming services like peacock and toby, and I'm like, and I'vewatched a little bit of Tube just...

...because I'm freaking you know I'minterested. I want to make sure I don't miss the boat if something's happening,there's so many more opportunities like that and a flow of information throughsocial media. You get exposed to the new stuff and you want to. You have totry to figure out what's worthwhile to letch on to especially in our field.It's like you, don't want to be caught behind the curve because yeah you do and you still have to practice, butdiscern property. You got to be wise. You got a practice discernment, like Ithink, one of the episodes John You mentioned earlier in the Year ClubHouse debuted and just took off like a jargon aut. Now it's gone and it's like.I have people saying like Jason, you got to get on, you got to get on clubhouse and I'm like I want to do another zoom meeting. No can't make me not theboss of me, and you know that sort of- and I think you got on a couple of acouple of them and you were like hearing such awful awful advice aboutmarketing and practices and things like that, and there was other people, I'm ayou know, and I would go and read it and read and they're like that was what was coming out and I waslike well, this thing isn't going to last and you know so in our professionwe have to kind of read the freaking room and you know, because we can't getinto everything you know we can't be everywhere- that's not possible. I seethat all the time the age of the full service agency is over. Unless you'vegot like a hundred people on staff that specializing all the channels that areout there times for three. I did that backwards. I swear to God, I don'tdrink on Fridays. Even then, even then it's hard to keepup, I mean just kind of thinking back to Disney plus and why they might beconsidering ads and now, all of a sudden. We have to be concerned aboutthat. But you know something: That's changed over the last few years is thatRoku has gained from like two thousand and seventeen. You know fourteenmillion users. Now they have fifty five million like they're a power house andOtt. The bulk of inventory goes to ROK, which is I like. I like fine under theRador for the most part, but anybody who's really paying attention is goingto like up crap we got now you got to figure this out in an s I mean and we've kind of we've hit onit, but haven't addressed it specifically, but it's audiencefragmentation you had in the old days. You had three, maybe four networks andyou had radio and Y: U H, D, newspapers and magazines, okay, and if we thinkabout there's there are a lot of those I mean think about the number ofmagazines and Rron the shelf at one time- and I mean it was huge, but now you still have that, but you've also got over the top you've got, but then, in over the topyou've got Amazon. You've got the the the AMA Amazon fire. Whatever that'scalled the Amazon device. You've got Roku you've got apple TV, you I meanyou've got googles devices and been with it and then within those here's an example. I like failed videos.Okay, I'm a sucker for good funny, Guy and Escape Board. You subscribe to foulArmy, don't you admit it? I remember when fail, videos were justthings you randomly found on Youtube and Youtube first hit yeah. Then therebecame a channel called fail army. Okay, so you went that's where you went whenyou want to watch now they haven't over the top champ, Okay Kah! That's howfragment of the audience is. There are you've, got so many people at one time in so manydifferent places. It's inconceivable, and if I, if you'dask me twenty five years of ride reference, it popped in my head, thanksmatch it's. If you, if I sit and think...

...about it too long, it actually gives mecold sweats, because it means what you, because you trying to figure out for acat for a client, the best places to put them in front ofan audience. Well how much this is where the time goes into planning. Wehave to do so much more planning and do so much more research. Now, simplybecause there are so many different venues to get in front of an audience, becausea a I had a business owner who's been in business for quite a while once tellme that he thought that strategy was a made up non. Like thing I forget, Iphrased it as a non thing, and I laugh now because all we get today is peopleasking us like. We really need help with ditch strategy. We need reallyneed it and I'm like it's, not a digital strategy. You need help, it'sjust you know: stratus trated. You just need strategy, it's not right, Odigital digital- it's I mean everything's digital now, anyway, soyeah, but there's the other side of that coin.Mitch I mean, aside from the planning that it takes then there's attributionwhich, when you have that level of fragmentation, you have people hoppingover here and they see this head or they engage this at, but they don't doanything that you really want them to do. Then they come over here threeweeks later and they see it on. I don't know a Roku movie and then they pick uptheir phone while they're watching that movie and they go by the thing, and it's likewhat do you attribute to that conversion? You know exactly. How doyou know where to put the rest of your money? This I mean it. You really haveto Asters, I'm sorry you found out. This is difficult. Yeah I mean itreally gets very philosophical when you think about it. Johnson, is that it'sreally not any easier in the big picture. It's not any easier to gaugebehavior where marketing is concerned. Didn't ever has been it's hard. It washard before because you had so few ways to really find out details back beforehe before the advantiges now, because it's so fragmented, it's not an easierbecause it's harder to quantify what made them take that step tointeract with the brand, and you know we want to think all of our listenersfor listening and we hope you can gain some insights from the show you canfind us everywhere else: social media at Ner, brand Agecombe at Ner Brancos,where you found this see. This is what happens when it's aFriday and you're hungry nerd brand agency is the website. Youcan find us on all the social media channels using the handle at ner brandagency man, so it wasn't so hard that wasn'tso hard at all. It's Deus yeah, just google US yeah seriously. I think we'vekind of- and that's taken us a year to get to where we're at and we're stillcrafting and polishing, because that's another channel that we're not going totalk about on the show today, because that I think we hit that one up prettypretty hard enough and we may come back to that one with another guest thatwe've had on the show before. So we will let you know and keep you posted,but anyway, thanks for listening and guys. Thank you for coming on the showfor Friday. You know you've been working hard this week, so you know Mitch got his cares, cutall of them and John a Hem John. You probably want to pull some years out thing pretty good. I caught up nowyou're caught up all right awesome. Well, I re telling everybody out. Thereremember: Keep your nerve branch strong, a.

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